https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/05/25/nfl-nflpa-agree-to-allow-up-to-eight-players-to-return-from-injured-reserve-in-2022/NFL, NFLPA agree to allow up to eight players to return from injured reserve in 2022

IMO this is some bullshit... after the last two years of the NFL finally getting the IR rules right, allowing every single players on the 53 man roster to return from IR ONCE...

Now in 2022, teams can only allow 8 return from IR total... and one player would be allowed to return from IR twice (and it'd count as 2 of the 8 times if that happens)....

But why? They had the rule right, and now are screwing it up...

It's much better than the 2019 rules which only allowed two... but 2020 and 2021 seemed perfect.

Bringing 8 players back seems fair to me. If there's a problem they can bump it up to 10-12 next year.

I am clueless about the objective of these rules.
Are they designed to prevent teams from forcing someone to play when they still may be injured?
I think I understand how it can be manipulated to temporarily get at least one additional player on the roster while another player is "injured"

wpr;451083Bringing 8 players back seems fair to me. If there's a problem they can bump it up to 10-12 next year.

It's a lot more fair than 1 player that it was for a long time. But what was wrong with allowing each player to come back once?

That was fair as well, especially considering the NFL forced them to do a long term vs short term IR destination, you knew the short term IR players weren't season ending injuries.

dyeah_gb;451084I am clueless about the objective of these rules.
Are they designed to prevent teams from forcing someone to play when they still may be injured?
I think I understand how it can be manipulated to temporarily get at least one additional player on the roster while another player is "injured"

I sometimes think the NFL is clueless about the objective of their rules too...

I believe the objective is so teams can IR an injured player, knowing they can bring that player back later. Thus freeing up a roster spot for a healthy player, meaning that the rest of the roster doesn't have carry too many injured players. I believe a Tony Dungy team once had so many injured players, they couldn't suit up 45 healthy ones... but they also didn't want to IR them, as they were going to the playoffs and should those players get healthy, they wanted them in the roster still.



But ego and tradition seems to be a major part of the NFL's objective too, as they seem to refuse to be the first to adapt (other than for safety reasons when sorta forced too by bad PR) and they seem to refuse to adopt anything that was set up by another league first.

Bud Grant from profootballtalk“I attended enough meetings to know the NFL wants to avoid admitting Canadian football has a better idea about anything. Yet, they should follow Canada and take away the fair catch,” Grant said. “There’s no fair catch in Canada, but the coverage also has to give the returner 5 yards. NFL people hear this and they’ll say, ‘It will increase injuries.’ The 5-yard cushion makes all the difference. My opinion is there won’t be a real increase in injuries, and the punt would become an interesting play.”

And if they really wanted a "fair" overtime system, they could quite easily adopt college overall model or something similar to it, but they simply refuse to adopt something another place adopted first.

The only thing I can remember the NFL has easily adopted from another league was new camera angles and ways to show stuff, which the XFL did a great job of with their first run, and only reason the NFL was so easy to adopt them, was because the XFL was then out of business.

mr. beast, excellent thoughtful post as usual.
I think teams could potentially abuse the unlimited number of back-and-forth‘s of the practice squad. Last year I believe they were trying to accommodate for Covid, whereas this year it would appear that that difficulty, at least in their minds, has gone away.
regardless I think there has to be some mechanism for illness versus injury. If a team has 20 guys with Covid, you have to be able to field a team.
I’m not sure what the answer is, but I think it involves a distinction between illness and injury…especially a highly contagious illness.

beast;451085It's a lot more fair than 1 player that it was for a long time. But what was wrong with allowing each player to come back once?

I don't completely disagree with you but since the players themselves vai their union agreed to place a limit on players returning they must not like the unlimited concept. In the long long long run, unlimited would benefit the fringe players who need to be on the field to get a decent second contract. Not so much the starters or higher draft pick players who are almost assured of making some team's 53.

beast;451085
I sometimes think the NFL is clueless about the objective of their rules too...

Painfully agree.

beast;451085I believe the objective is so teams can IR an injured player, knowing they can bring that player back later. Thus freeing up a roster spot for a healthy player, meaning that the rest of the roster doesn't have carry too many injured players. I believe a Tony Dungy team once had so many injured players, they couldn't suit up 45 healthy ones... but they also didn't want to IR them, as they were going to the playoffs and should those players get healthy, they wanted them in the roster still.

yep.

beast;451085And if they really wanted a "fair" overtime system, they could quite easily adopt college overall model or something similar to it, but they simply refuse to adopt something another place adopted first.

Yes please. If they want their "own" thing, then start at the 40.

beast;451085The only thing I can remember the NFL has easily adopted from another league was new camera angles and ways to show stuff, which the XFL did a great job of with their first run, and only reason the NFL was so easy to adopt them, was because the XFL was then out of business.

Add 2 point converstion to the list.

I don't know if they still do it but about 20 years ago I was watching Aussy rules football. The defense must line up 1 yard off the LOS. When a team got down to the goal line, the ball was moved back to the 1. They ran the ball and got 6 inches from the goal line and on the next play the LOS was again the 1 yard line. I found it interesting.

Martha Careful;451086I think teams could potentially abuse the unlimited number of back-and-forth‘s of the practice squad.

I believe there was a non-covid limit of reverting back to the PS, without going through waivers. Like teams only got a free pass two or three times, for activating a PS on the game day roster, after that they had to go through waivers.

Though, there might of been a Covid exception as well.

But either way, PS players are considered FAs where the other 31 teams can sign them to their 53 man roster at anytime*.

Note, the NFL did allow teams to put a shield on 4 players per week, where other teams couldn't sign those 4 PS between Wednesday and Monday I believe, IE you had to sign them on Tuesday. Packers used these shield spots mostly on specialist like QB, K, P, LS, etc the position that don't have enough depth on the 53 man roster and should COVID take one out your in trouble.

Martha Careful;451086Last year I believe they were trying to accommodate for Covid, whereas this year it would appear that that difficulty, at least in their minds, has gone away.
regardless I think there has to be some mechanism for illness versus injury. If a team has 20 guys with Covid, you have to be able to field a team.
I’m not sure what the answer is, but I think it involves a distinction between illness and injury…especially a highly contagious illness.

The NFL has had the COVID reserve roster, which is a completely different issue and different rules than the IR reserve list.

Assuming they still have it (I don't know why they wouldn't) the COVID reserve list was for anyone that tested positive for Covid. They keep changing the rules to come off of it, so I haven't kept up with that.

But if a member of the 53 man roster is on the Covid reserve, that has allows teams to active one player from the PS for GameDay, without using one of the free passes back to the PS I believe.

wpr;451087I don't completely disagree with you but since the players themselves vai their union agreed to place a limit on players returning they must not like the unlimited concept. In the long long long run, unlimited would benefit the fringe players who need to be on the field to get a decent second contract. Not so much the starters or higher draft pick players who are almost assured of making some team's 53.

Very true, the Players Union did agree to it, though I don't know what the alternative was...

And you nailed it why this is important to me, originally when they only allowed one, well it was a rule only for the Super Stars... and to me that's complete BS, to have one set of rules for the Super Stars and another set of rules for average player... which is why I truely liked allowing all players to come back once from the IR per season. It's a completely level playing field from a players injury perspective and, injuries are a part of this game.

wpr;451087Yes please. If they want their "own" thing, then start at the 40.

Exactly they can put their own twist on it.

To be honest, I like the sudden death model (especially in the regular season) and I'm alright with just having a tie if still equal after the 4th quarter (players safety is better not making them play a 5th quarter).

But I'm just tired of the NFL complaining about fairness (fans doing it is fine, but not the NFL), if they want fairness, then College has already come up with the perfect model.

And people have suggested how to make the model even better, such as your suggestion to start at the 40... another suggestion I think is exciting is to basically have a 2 point off... just like soccer would have overtime kickoffs.

Similar in that each team would give x amount of 2 point ties (let's say x = 4 since there are 4 downs), which ever team scores more 2 pointers wins the game. And if they're still tied then they keep doing two pointers one at a time until one team has more than the other.

wpr;451087
Add 2 point converstion to the list.

I don't know if they still do it but about 20 years ago I was watching Aussy rules football. The defense must line up 1 yard off the LOS. When a team got down to the goal line, the ball was moved back to the 1. They ran the ball and got 6 inches from the goal line and on the next play the LOS was again the 1 yard line. I found it interesting.

I just looked up the 2 point history (honestly before my time), looks like the AFL had the 2 point rule in 1960... the NFL Europe developmental league had it in 1991 and regular main stream NFL didn't get it until 1994. So yes they adopted the 2 point rule, but one could also argue it took them 34 years to do so. So while they adopted it, I see it more as they dragged their feet in doing so.

Also interestingly, I read that the CFL two point conversations are from the 5 yard line instead of the 2.

I believe the CFL defenders also have to line up a yard off the ball. I don't know about their goalie situations.

But yes, not allowing the ball to be lined up inside the one yard line is interesting... though I feel like that's unfair to the offense... though that also brings up a point of defenders, it's unfair that the Center is often times moving the ball up a couple of inches after times they line up lol

Which lead to this old post and people just laughing when a defender did it back lol

Seriously, watch the Twitter video and follow the ball lol

beast;434025

After decades of seeing the Centers move the ball up, at least a foot, pre-snap it's about time we see one defender move it back lol

The NFL created a committee. And if the committee doesn't do anything, then it's why do they exist. So this poor sad sack of male crap sticks creates rules reactionary to the most recent issue that often times makes things worse.
It's solely so they have something to do to merit their weak sad pathetic existence.

I also feel this is why police officers pulled me over all the time. I mean, who the hell was I hurting going 78 in a 55? 🙄 But they have to meet their quote and it was Pick On Kevin saturday, so....

beast;451089Very true, the Players Union did agree to it, though I don't know what the alternative was...

Just say "no". They are a union. Unions do stuff like that. They don't have to have a reason.

beast;451089 another suggestion I think is exciting is to basically have a 2 point off... just like soccer would have overtime kickoffs.

Similar in that each team would give x amount of 2 point ties (let's say x = 4 since there are 4 downs), which ever team scores more 2 pointers wins the game. And if they're still tied then they keep doing two pointers one at a time until one team has more than the other.

How about having the FG kicker try to kick the ball through the uprights from his 35? That would lend to some excitement. Sort of like penalty kicks in international football except there is no goalie getting in the way.

beast;451089I just looked up the 2 point history (honestly before my time), looks like the AFL had the 2 point rule in 1960... the NFL Europe developmental league had it in 1991 and regular main stream NFL didn't get it until 1994. So yes they adopted the 2 point rule, but one could also argue it took them 34 years to do so. So while they adopted it, I see it more as they dragged their feet in doing so.

Also interestingly, I read that the CFL two point conversations are from the 5 yard line instead of the 2.

I think the USFL did it as well. I could be wrong. Don't want to go look it up.

beast;451089I believe the CFL defenders also have to line up a yard off the ball. I don't know about their goalie situations.

But yes, not allowing the ball to be lined up inside the one yard line is interesting... though I feel like that's unfair to the offense... though that also brings up a point of defenders, it's unfair that the Center is often times moving the ball up a couple of inches after times they line up lol

I bet it was a CFL game I watched. Like I said it was a long time ago. Good catch.

beast;451089Which lead to this old post and people just laughing when a defender did it back lol

Seriously, watch the Twitter video and follow the ball lol

When my Dad played high school football he saw the center on the other team doing it. He went over to the ref and said something about it. The ref was noncommittal. Next time the C moved the ball, he had to pick it up to do it, my Dad swiped the ball away and recovered it. Some of the other refs wanted to toss a flag for unsportsmanship, the ref that my Dad spoke to called it a fumble and recovery by the defense. The other team's HC went berserk.
He only got away with it once.

Back in the 20's there was no rule about not moving the ball forward. Papa Hals liked to tell the story how he "cheated" every chance he got by moving the ball a few inches or a foot if he could. (after being tackled.) One time he did it and while still laying prone on the ground Jim Thrope jumped on his back and told him, "If you move the ball, I will ride you like a horse." Halas didn't do it anymore in that game.