1. Welcome back Alan. You have been missed. I look forward to your hot takes on the Packer players and team as a whole as TC moves into the season.
2. I have thought about commenting on this Biden/Trump?harris issue but can't seem to get my "giveadamn" (Is it less of a swear if I scrunch the words together?) motivation up high enough to comment.
3. Wisky and Michigan look to be the two closest of the swing states. Michigan E to +2 Trump. Wisconsin finds Harris +1 in the most recent polls. Your votes are going to count. In IL, it don't matter who I vote for. Chicago makes it a solid blue 10-15 point lock for whoever the Dem is.
Penn is a closse state to watch as well. When it was Biden, Trump was +7-9 a week ago. Now it's only +2 with the VP leading the ticket.
Interestingly Minnysoda, Jersey and Virginia are typically blue and as of their last polls, when Biden was still fumbling and stumbling along, Trump was +1 or 2. I have not seen any polls since Harris took over. The last time Virginia voted for a Republican was 2004 with Bush The Younger. For Jersey it was 1988 and Bush the Elder. Minny was 1972 and Tricky Dickie. They must have said, "Never Again!" after that. They didn't even vote for Reagan in his landslide wins in the 80's.

Thanks Wayne!

Hey Beast. So many make a big deal about Trump lying. Yet Biden lied as much if not more then Trump. One biggie from the debate was Biden saying that not one single American soldier died in the line of duty since he became president.
Uh.....I guess the 13 that were killed didn't count to him.
Ask the families of those brave men how they feel about that.
About the only truth Biden stated during the debate was how he "beat medicare".

Let's just not. This place should remain apolitical imo as there is a history of fighting over this stuff

Cheesey;464561Thanks Wayne!

Hey Beast. So many make a big deal about Trump lying. Yet Biden lied as much if not more then Trump. One biggie from the debate was Biden saying that not one single American soldier died in the line of duty since he became president.
Uh.....I guess the 13 that were killed didn't count to him.
Ask the families of those brave men how they feel about that.
About the only truth Biden stated during the debate was how he "beat medicare".

When someone says this politician lied, it feels as pertinent as saying water is wet. Politicians lie. It's what they do. All of them.
🤷

Biden is out for 2024. It feels like a crazy time! It seems Kamala Harris is going to replace his spot on the election ticket. If true, I think Democrats might just be mailing this election in and focusing on 2028.
And I sure as heck both parties put forth worthwhile candidates. Hahah, I am so naive!!

As a bleeding heart liberal of the worst possible kind, I think Joe Biden dropping out is a good thing. I’ll try not to delve into the Biden vs Trump stuff here too much (beast makes some very reasonable points) but I don’t think it’s good for the country for either of these men to run for the presidency. If we’re being honest, as best case both have some form of early-stage dementia. I say this not as a doctor but as someone who helped care for my mother-in-law’s dementia for 10 years. Politics aside, we need young, capable leaders. We deserve better than a choice between two creepy old farts who probably wouldn’t make it through a second term.

I think people underestimate the support that Kamala Harris has. We (Democrats) largely voted for Biden and Harris, with the thought being that Biden’s significant limitations could be overcome by Harris being part of his team and with the expectation that this was a 1 term appointment for Biden. Biden was not the top choice for a lot people, but we had confidence that he could put together a legislatively effective team that could bring us out of the Covid situation before passing the torch onto the next generation. That’s largely what he has done and is doing. Harris being a more progressive force that would help to modernize the office with Biden in the seat was something we voted for as well - that's a feature, not a bug. It's a yin and yang sort of thing - Harris will need similar balance, so look for her to pick a popular, more centrist VP from a swing state.

I find the timing of this rather interesting. Part of me thinks Biden should not have run - it should have gone to an open convention. But the other part of me thinks this is brilliant, Trump has spent the last however long focusing on Biden, and now has to switch to Harris. On the other hand, Harris has a lot of ground to make up very quickly, though it helps being the VP and already having been on the campaign trail. So just from that perspective it being the VP makes a ton of sense, but it’s certainly a high-risk, high-reward play. Overall, I think the Democrats have a better chance of winning with Harris than Biden, but I’m only 60/40 on that being correct at this moment in time.

I don’t think Harris is a sacrificial lamb as Alan suggests though, I think she has a genuine chance to win, potentially even win big here. If the narrative is “pick between two unlikable old farts” and “pick between a bright young thing and an old fart” she could have a major advantage. I think Martha is right in that the bright young thing could have been any number of people - certainly some that she mentions, but it sounds like those are the top VP candidates at the moment (Shapario, Kelly, Cooper) so they’ll get a bit of both.

In summary, I’m nervous but equally excited that it’s not going to be Joe Biden on the ticket for the Democrats. It never should have been either Biden or Trump, but here we are.

I enjoy reading well thought out, reasoned opinions, especially, when they don't agree with mine.
So thanks to all who have posted.

Martha Careful;464574I enjoy reading well thought out, reasoned opinions, especially, when they don't agree with mine.
So thanks to all who have posted.

Absolutely! I like talking these subjects with rational people -- or those that can discuss them rationally.

Granted, I think anyone saying this party is better than the other party is batcrap crazy or blind, lol. (DISCLAIMER- I think both are deplorable and care first and most about their party's reign than the Country) but I enjoy the discussion and talk nonetheless because ya never know what you can learn.

I developed these feelings over time because it feels if you like a Republican, you gotta vote Republican all the way down. If you like a Democrat, you gotta vote Democrat all the way down. I think that's poohey. When I vote, I pick the best candidate regardless of the party. And by "best", I aim for what I feel the candidates job is. e.g. people talking about crime rate or job rate under this President or that President don't really grasp the duties of the President. Or they don't understand each State has a Governor and other politicians that are more responsible for those such things.

Then again, I could just be full of doggie do and don't know a damn thing. I've accepted that as a possibility too! haha

My "favorite" politician was probably Robert F Kennedy. I think he would have made a great President and the deaths and events of '68 are what erased the HOPE that America had.

One of my favorite politicians is actually from the state of Wisconsin.

His name was William Proxmire.
He was an honest man of integrity who not only was not bought and paid for by anybody, but he literally ran his campaign on thousands of dollars.

He would make himself available to local radio and television stations, take calls, and explain its positions on the issues of the day.

Now, politicians take millions and millions of dollars… And there's always a strings attached… And both sides run negative ads which greatly exaggerate their opponents position.


Yes, if you can quote an opponent saying something that's fair game, but to use AI and other things to Deceive is not kosher in my book.

One of the biggest things that bothers me, is how Harris handled the border. It was her only job, and she did nothing to protect the United States against millions of illegals pouring in.
When questioned why she never went down to the border to oversee it, she said "we've been to the border".
She was corrected, the questioner said "You've never been to the border"
and her reply? " I've never been to Europe, I don't understand your point."
Huh? Either she's ignorant, or just plain dumb.
Is there anyone here that didn't understand the point? If there is, here it is : if it's your job to oversee what's going on at the border, to stop illegals from pouring into our country, shouldn't you actually be there to make sure the job is getting done, to protect US citizens? In 3 years, she did nothing to do so. Yet she keeps saying the border is secure.
Now, so you don't misunderstand me, I'm not against immigrants coming into our country.
But do it LEGALLY.
I don't think that is asking too much. The laws are made to protect us.